Seeking support is not sharing beliefs
Comments(13)
The talk is of comparisons, between Obama and Rev. Wright and McCain and the the right-wing’s mob of eccentric reverends. But this should not be an issue!
Can’t people just accept that a politician has to do what a politician has to do. It’s about winning. I might really dislike the San Antonio Spurs, but it doesn’t mean if I was trying to put together a winning team I wouldn’t want Duncan and Parker on my side.
The media’s belated attempt to magnify an obvious “race and religion” issue is a joke. It was obvious that they were in the wrong bringing up Obama and Wright’s relationship in terms of politics and to not include the views of those who support McCain or Huckabee or Romney. And it is pathetic to hear people claim that Obama’s case is worse because he attended Wright’s church for 20 years. In fac, McCain said just that as he rejected Hegge’s support.
The fact is that Hegge and Wright have said some awfully stupid things, but then they say things that some think are crazy and I happen to agree with. I won’t post links to any of the quotes from either of them, but instead I will simply say that America has done MANY things wrong in the world.
Just because someone says one thing wrong, doesn’t mean they can’t say 10 things right. Hegge and Wright have been great spiritual leaders for thousands of Americans who did not agree with everything they said. There is nothing wrong with Obama attending Wright’s church, and there is nothing wrong with McCain seeking support from known fanatics.
But I imagine there are those who would disagree. So you give me your take.
“Can’t people just accept that a politician has to do what a politician has to do. It’s about winning.”
- Ouch, that’s as sad commentary. I hold higher expectations than that from political leaders. In fact I hope to see STATESMANSHIP instead of slippery politics. What endears me to a political leader is the ability and effort to what’s RIGHT, while trying to win; not JUST winning.
“There is nothing wrong with Obama attending Wright’s church”
Oh yes there is. I hold a leadership position in my church, and I would not stay if my Pastor said things similar to what Wright said, and remained unrepentant about it as does Wright. It’s not just that Wright said some stupid things, it’s that he really believes that stuff. Being there for 20 years raises questions about Sen. Obama’s judgement.
As I’ve said before, if the tables were turned this would be a bombshell campaign issue.
If a Republican nominee were caught attending a church for 20 years run by a WHITE supremacist who preached hatred about blacks, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. The candidate would be gone with inevitable comparisons to David Duke.
And you, Matt, who sees bigotry in every corner of the “right-wing mob,” would be screaming as loud as anyone.
If Obama NEEDS Wright to win, what does that say about the Democratic Party? Do left-wing candidates need to demonstrate they loathe their country in order to attract votes?
Personally, I think this is hilarious and instructive. The latent racism and sexism revealed in the Democratic Party this primary illustrates one of the deepest hypocrisies of the modern era.
You think the media has made a big deal about Wright? Puhlease. Is this the same media that chased George Allen right out of a race because he used the word “macaca?” Or the one that forced Trent Lott out of a leadership position because he said Strom Thurman would have made a good president?
Besides, I thought Obama was supposed to be “different.” “Transcendent.” Now you’re telling us he is like every other politician who does things just to get elected. That may very well be true but I wouldn’t say it too loud. It pretty much blows his whole platform.
“What endears me to a political leader is the ability and effort to what’s RIGHT, while trying to win; not JUST winning.”
How about doing what’s “right” ALL the time….not just “while trying to win”.
AND TO BE HONEST…
I am really sick and tired of the focus of this campaign being about who said what about another candidate, who attends what church, etc…
I want to know how I am going to be able to contiue to afford to drive to work with gas prices soaring to over $4 a gallon, how I am going to be able to put quality food on the table because those same prices are also going sky high. I want to know who is going to SERIOUSLY tackle our nations economical needs….I really don’t care if he/she wears two different colored shoes, or any shoes at all…I just want them to show us a plan and have the gumption to show the American people that they are willing to do whatever it takes to make a better tomorrow for us all…not just talk about it until elected.
Camper – that’s exactly what I meant. You parse my sentence structure too deeply! Anyway, there is NEVER a time in politics when they aren’t “trying to win” – that is a part of everything, every minute of every day, in the political arena. Everything said/done is weighed against pros, cons, and within the context of what is the right thing to do.
Unfortunately the pros and cons calculation oftent outweighs what is right – thus my comment in my previous post.
PT, I think it’s funny how you used my reference to the “mob of eccentric reverends” and turned and quoted me as saying “right-wing mob.” A good reporter should be able to quote someone in context. But then again you did call gays and lesbians a “chosen minority” and refused to apologize for it, so I don’t expect much from someone who would do that.
CampersSunset, in one of my early posts and in my responses to various other blogs, I comment on how issues like Rev. Wright, William Ayers and McCain’s divorce should not be a part of the campaign season, because the voters will be voting on issues that matter to them like gas prices and the housing crisis. But I think the sad reality is that we feel obligated to selfishly personalize the vote, and ignore the worldly issues which America oversees such as the War in Iraq. If someone were to ask me one reason why I like Obama, it’s the one thing that separates him from all the others. He is a diplomat. He would be willing to talk to leaders of ALL nations in hopes of making the world a better place. Perhaps I’m just buying into the idealism Obama’s campaign is selling, but so is the rest of my generation.
And MisterC, I just don’t think we should be judging Obama’s character based on him attending Rev. Wright’s church. I suggest that politicians do what they need to do in order to win, I never said that meant doing what is wrong and ignoring what is right. I think McCain did what is right and what was politically necessary in denouncing Hegge’s comments. The same for Obama. I think we should move away from those fake issues and focus on CampersSunset’s concerns.
PT, I think it’s funny how you used my reference to the “mob of eccentric reverends”
Here is the complete quote Matt:
In other words, you make a stereotypical assumption about my positions that, at the very least makes me look like someone indifferent to the civil liberties of chosen minorities, and at worst, a bigot.
See? The “chosen” is a reference to the fact I was accused of picking and choosing groups to oppress (gays, abortion). Frankly, I’m not even sure what a “chosen minority” is supposed to mean or why that would suddenly become offensive, but I’m sure you can explain it to me.
Your “chosen minorities” reference is directed and gays and lesbians, and it has taken you 4 days to try to present an argument for anything otherwise. Instead of taking the high road and apologizing, you have tried to deny. So I make stereotypical assumptions no longer, I can clearly define you, someone who implied that gays and lesbians choose to be gay, as a bigot.
But perhaps Howie misread your comment as well.
First:
“If you can demonstrate that homosexuals (roughly 13 percent of the population), or women who get abortions (about one million a year in a population of 300 million), are not a minority of the overall population I would be happy to apologize.”
How do/will we ever know they are, or are not, “a minority of the overall population”? Do we know exactly how many homosexuals or women who have had abortions there really are (other than what may have been reported through clinical surveys ot a given number of individuals)? I think not.
And second:
“Frankly, I’m not even sure what a “chosen minority”
Matt, my post didn’t judge Sen. Obama’s Character (you are putting words in my post). I questioned his judgement. Bad judgement, whilst quite troubling, is not a character issue.
Rev. Wright’s commentaries and positions were well known before the recent media furor. They were expressed in Church bulletin inserts, newsletters and church videos; regularly, over many years. There is no possible way Sen. OBama was utterly ignorant for the two decades he was a member attending there. That premise is entirely incredulous. [Think about it though - either he knew and stayed, or he spent 20 years being inattentive to his Pastor. Personally I wouldn't want to lay claim to either scenario.]
The average, non-partisan, Joe and Jane citizen understand this and it makes them wonder why Sen Obama chose to stay under that man’s leadership- because THEY would not stay for 20 years in a church with a pastor like that. For the average person, this calls into question Sen. Obama’s judgement.
Okay Matt, you win. I’m a bigot. I haven’t denied anything but have simply tried to help you understand the context of the word “chosen.”
In my chosen field, I am often misconstrued, but expect that other journalists, familiar with the English language, will not make such ridiculous assumptions.
Your chosen route has been to seemingly purposely misconstrue the remark in order to excuse keeping up this silly charade.
I do very much want to thank you though, as you have made a decision I have been struggling with much easier. As one of many of ECM’s chosen bloggers, I had hoped we, together as professionals, could raise the level of discourse. Stringent disagreement is one thing, but when we start throwing around terms like “bigot” and “skank,” rather than raise the level of discourse, we embrace gutter sniping on par with the worst the blogosphere has to offer.
I take as much credit for the lowering of the discourse as anyone. Obviously there is something that I’ve done, a chosen position I’ve taken, that has given the green light to go ahead and start lobbing names. While I have disagreed, at times vehemently, with posts, I have tried to stay away from reducing the debate to raw name-calling.
If I have failed in that capacity I do apologize. And with that I think my time here is done. Blogging is a passion of mine and I wanted to open that passion to ECM. That has certainly been accomplished and my work here is thus complete.
Thanks for the memories. I’m going fishing…permanently.
PT…goin’ fishing just as a respite from this blog or all the blogs you honor with your upbeat(ha) approach and attitude?
Seems to me (meaning it is solely “my” opinion…just want to be sure you understand the “context” of my “chosen” word)that you are the equivalent to a playground bully….you’re a “Blog Bully”!!!! I have perused many of the other blogs and find that you are are as equally negative and hostile on them as well.
Well PT, go pout in the corner of your dinghy for a while…
I believe you are certainly not the first or last person to notice PTs confrontational tone CampersSunset. I apologize to PT for any offensive name calling. I had hoped he would apologize for making a bigoted remark, but instead he refuted claims. I will not deny, and admit, that I was in the wrong. We will miss you PT. You are obviously one of the most humble and fair-spoken bloggers to ever enter the blogosphere. ECM will have to find someone new to antagonize Howie and the general public.